Whitefeather:  Why they should vote for me?

Press/ON: Yeah.

Whitefeather: Well, I think it’s, ah, for me, it’s obvious that, ah, we’ve been able to get a lot of things, ah, started in Red Lake over the last eight years.  If you take a snapshot of what was there eight years ago, and the amount of work that’s been done over the last eight years by a lot of people, it’s remarkable, and when I visit with other tribes and tribal leaders, they look at us to see how we do things, and get the job done, and they recognize that it’s many ingredients to the combination that make it successful, and strong leadership is one of them, that, you know, you’ve gotta get out there and identify with the people, and make sure they know that you care about them, and everything associated with them.  So, there’s, there’s still tremendous amount of need yet, and ah, if we ever get to where everybody’s gonna be comfortable, I would like to see that, but there are so many, many unmet needs that’s out there yet, that it’s gonna take a lot more effort by many people over time.

Press/ON: What to you are the most pressing needs?

Whitefeather: The what?

Press/ON: What to you are the most pressing needs?

Whitefeather:  To me, it’s always been jobs.  Trying to create enough jobs so that everybody would have a chance at one point, that, you know, if they wanna work, we’ll create jobs, and naturally, some of the jobs that have been created are not attractive to everybody, and, ah, we’re doing what we can with what we have, and then underneath all of that too is the need for adequate education.  Education is so important, not only to be able to get a job and retain a job, but to look beyond the reservation.  There’s nothing wrong with going out from the reservation and experiencing what the rest of the world has to offer, in fact, that would enable people to grow, when they get that exposure of the world off the reservation, that would only enhance their outlook, and they would say, yeah, there are some things that are possible, and then, at the same time, also, to realize that yeah, we do have a lot of positive things, at the same time there are many, many things that we need to work on, and sometimes there are forces beyond our control that affect us, and it’s a lot of the behavior by the dominant society that trickles over to us, or spills over to us, and we become victims of that.  Not during the time it happens, but slowly, slowly, like right now we are having the problems with drugs and violence, and we realize that’s a, um, a side effect from what goes on in the inner city.

Press/ON: Do you have any specific ways that you intend to address that?  It seems like it’s getting worse.

Whitefeather: The specific way to address that is to make sure that the community comes together, and have the courage to identify it, and say, yeah, ‘I know this is going on, I know this going on, and let’s do something to report it.’  Reporting it is the beginning, following up and making sure that you have the courage to say, ‘yeah, this is what happens,’ and the community needs to stick together rather than expect a certain group to accomplish everything, and I get to stand back.  Everybody has to get involved, because we all have a stake in our homeland, to make sure that it’s safe, because at some point in time, one way or another, it’s gonna affect us, whether it be through family, or some other, some other event that’s not good for individuals’ family, extended family, our entire reservation as a whole, and trying to make sure that we have adequate coverage for our law enforcement, we have to support our law enforcement, we have to support the courts, and along with that the tribal government needs to fully fund these agencies or these departments that are charged with trying to make our place better.  So there are many, many, many, many things to this – this entire issue of trying make a safe homeland that need to come together, and it’s gonna take leadership to stand at the forefront and say that, yeah, I will take the stance that I’m going to take on the drug pushers and everyone else that’s causing the pain and wrecking havoc on our reservation.

Press/ON: There have been some fairly credible allegations that some of the people, or at least certain people working in the law enforcement system are involved in the drug trade.  Is there any way that  … or do you have any comment on that?

Whitefeather: I, I’m not, um, of course, I’m not certain of any of that type of activity.  I have also heard some allegations, and I have instructed Department of Public Safety to look into those things, and ah, there has been a court order issues that they look at some – I think what they were doing was, wanted to make sure that chain of custody on evidence is adequately followed through, and the Public Safety Commission is charged with making sure that those kind of things don’t happen.

Press/ON: Who’s in charge of that?

Whitefeather: The Public Safety Commission?

Press/ON: Yeah.

Whitefeather: A guy named Mickey Fairbanks, he’s the chairman of that.  And again, it’s going to take someone that knows what is going on, to come forward and have the courage to say, ‘yeah, this is what’s going on, this is what’s going on.’  If we don’t have anybody that has first hand knowledge of this, we’re not going to know.  That’s what I mean, whoever knows has to have the courage and say, ‘this is what’s going on.’  And that’s, sometimes, some of our people get upset with me, because, they come to me and said, well, ‘nothing is being done about this, and nothing is being done about that,’ and I ask ’em, ‘well, have you reported it?’  And they say, well, yeah, but, you know, nothing could be done, so I check on it, they say, yeah, they reported on it, but they failed to go through the whole process.  It’s just a matter of the courage of the community coming together, that’s the bottom line I see.

Press/ON: You were talking about jobs.  And it seems like there’s a real difference between developing a self-sustaining economic infrastructure, and either relying on outside funding or depending on maintaining a state-sanctioned monopoly on gambling.  Do you have any plans for developing a more enduring infrastructure that’s not as dependent on the outside?

Whitefeather: Well, naturally what we need to do is – and I’ve been talking about this – is to restructure our government so it’s more conducive to the environment, business.  It’s – right now the government we have in place is in charge of the economy, in charge of the health care, in charge of the jobs, ah, everything.

Press/ON: As tribal chairman, would you really be willing to back down on some of that power?

Whitefeather: Some of that what?

Press/ON: Power.

Whitefeather: Power?  Definitely.  Definitely. 

Press/ON: Geget ina?

Whitefeather: I’ve always said that, I’ve always said that, that the office of the chairman is only as good as you use it, and the office of the chairman has such potential for abuse

Press/ON: yes, it does

Whitefeather: depending on who’s there.

Press/ON: Yes it does.

Whitefeather: It does. And, I want to do away with that.  I want to have more balance in government.

Press/ON: What specific ideas – do you have some specific ideas that you’re ready to talk about at this point?

Whitefeather: Well, sure.  And I talked about it in 1988 election, about examining our constitution

Press/ON: uh-huh

Whitefeather: And seeing, you know, where are the weaknesses, where are the strong points, and having a group come together and start to take a look at ’em, take it out to the community, and say, you know, what do you think about this, what do you think about this?  And, have maybe a two-year process.  I did have money in the budget two years ago.  Ah, however, what I saw was happening, was in our tribe there was some internal conflict that, that I was trying to make sure that we didn’t get fractured and start to drift, because of the other two officers in the tribe, that they were in conflict, and I was in the middle there, trying to make sure that we were maintaining a steady course, and of course making sure that the council as a whole also had some input in some of the decisions that we were making, at that point in time I felt, and my grandpa always told me that you’ll know when the time is right to do something.  It wasn’t right to, the time wasn’t right to examine the constitution at that time, because of this internal conflict, because it would become a side issue, and it wouldn’t be as important as it should be.  But, during this campaign, from many, many people I have heard that it’s time that we take a look at restructuring our form of government.  I have been a proponent of that for a long, long time.

Press/ON: But, you don’t have any specific ideas that you want to lay out at this point …

Whitefeather: What I would like to see is some version of separation of powers.

Press/ON: Uh-huh?

Whitefeather: Where there would be an executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judicial branch.  Now whether we want to have another branch there, of, of blending in our culture and our traditions, is something that I would like the people to discuss, because we have an advisory body of hereditary chiefs right now, that really do not have a function, but, ah, it’s more of a symbolic situation for them.

Press/ON: A lot of people say that they get paid to nod their head, yeah.

Whitefeather: Well, I ask them a question, you know, what do you think, chiefs, what do you think, and I think it’s time that they also have some responsibility for their position and their title, and, ah, it’s not a very pleasant experience when I’m asked from time to time to interfere in the courts.  That’s something I stay away from, I, I – what I say is, well, I’ll check it out, I’ll ask a question, but I’m not going to ask a judicial officer to change their mind or anything.  I’d never do that.

Press/ON: But you would sign an order removing somebody from a courtroom without bothering to find out what’s happening.

Whitefeather: Well, on the constitution, in the executive power of the chairman authorizes that now.  Now whether the change in the constitution will require some other process that will take place, I don’t have no objection to that.

Press/ON: It seems to me as though there’s a difference between having a particular kind of power ‘on the books,’ and using it wisely.

Whitefeather: Yeah, exactly, exactly.  And there is some vagueness in our constitution about that, and it’s, it’s uh, actually presents itself for some opportunities for abuse.

Press/ON: It certainly does, yeah.  And, it’s like – to my knowledge you have removed four or five people during your tenure as chairman, and most of them – at least two other people besides myself – were involved in court processes, and what you did is simply remove the dissenting factor, dissenting people.

Whitefeather: The constitution requires me to ensure the safety, the health, and the well-being of the tribal member.  If there is a group of tribal members that come to me and say, this person, who is not a member of the tribe, is interfering in our well-being, can you do, do something about it.  So, I explain to them that there is a process that takes place, and if all else fails, and no negotiation takes place, and no acceptance of any terms, and my responsibility is to tribal members, the protection of our homeland.  And, if it requires removing someone that a family – it’s not me that makes a declaration of undesirability, it’s the tribal members that come to me and say, ‘we do not want this person on our homeland.’  My obligation, my legal obligation is to the tribal members, and that’s what I actually do.

Press/ON: Okay, in my own case, to my knowledge, I had no idea that there was any complaint against me … and I simply went to [probate] court and was handed this order of removal, no trial, no nothing, no questions asked, nobody ever even asked me what my side of the story was.  And I would say that that, in my understanding, is a fairly clear example of abuse of power.

Whitefeather: But it wasn’t my abuse.  If there was any abuse that you allege take place, it was perhaps the family not allowing you your forum.  And, legally, according to the constitution, you have no legal standing ...

Press/ON: So you are saying that – and this is a serious issue not just in terms of my own perspective, but in terms of, at this point, there’s a fairly active movement to get full recognition of tribal court hearings.  And in a tribal court where non-members have zero rights, and it’s very clearly prejudiced … there’s a reasonable number of non-members on Red Lake and any other reservation …

Whitefeather: Right, right …

Press/ON: … who are married in …

Whitefeather: right.

Press/ON: … who have lived there for years, and who intend to make it their home …

Whitefeather: right.

Press/ON: … and who aren’t causing trouble,

Whitefeather: right.

Press/ON: … and I wasn’t.

Whitefeather: right, I know that

Press/ON: And, to say, we reserve the right to exercise these kinds of civil rights abuses not only within our own boundaries, but for tribal court decisions that are going to cross over the line into the state of Minnesota, I think is sort of problematic.

Whitefeather: Uh, it could be.  And, it goes both ways, too.

Press/ON: Okay, what’s the other side?

Whitefeather: The other side of it is that we have the potential of non-Indians coming on to the reservation and conducting criminal activity, to a level that doesn’t rise to the Major Crimes Act, and we can’t do nothing – anything about it.  And also, now the Supreme Court is – has decided – cases where non-member Indians also we do not have jurisdiction over those.

Press/ON: The state – there is some legal precedent that the state does.

Whitefeather: Well, well not really.

Press/ON: [State jurisdiction at] Red Lake, yes

Whitefeather: Red … Red … Red … Red Lake

Press/ON: State versus Holthusen [N.W.2d 180; 1962].

Whitefeather: Um, I’m not familiar with that.

Press/ON: And plus, the recent Supreme Court decision … there was a recent Supreme Court that supported the same thing.

Whitefeather: Hicks versus Nevada?

Press/ON: Yeah, that’s it. [Nevada v Hicks, 533 U.S. 353; 2001]

Whitefeather: Yeah.  Uh-huh.

Press/ON: Where the state has a certain amount of jurisdiction, and whether or not the state chooses to exercise it …

Whitefeather: Right, right.

Press/ON: is a political question

Whitefeather: right, uh-huh

Press/ON: and, to say that ex parte removal without even giving the party removed, from a courtroom for example, is a viable form of due process that you expect the state and federal courts to recognize …

Whitefeather: Yeah, it’s expected, but it’s not required.

Press/ON: But I’m saying that

Whitefeather: right

Press/ON: what’s in the works right now a state rule of court requiring it.

Whitefeather: I’m not familiar with that.

Press/ON: I was just at a hearing about three weeks ago.

Whitefeather: Yeah, I’m not aware of that, but my position as tribal chairman is that I have to defend homeland, and defend the sovereignty from intrusion by people that have no legal standing on the reservation, that’s my obligation.

Press/ON: It seems as though there are some fairly complicated issues underneath that.

Whitefeather: Yeah, there are.

Press/ON: One of them is tribal

Whitefeather: there are

Press/ON: enrollment

Whitefeather: Uh-huh.

Press/ON: One of them is, especially, tribal enrollment for members whose children are non-members

Whitefeather: Right

Press/ON: and, that particular issue is going to become more and more problematic

Whitefeather: problematic, yes, yes, there’s more and more … like that

Press/ON: and, it seems as though having one standard of fairness for members – and in some instances a brother or … sister is … enrolled and her younger sister is not

Whitefeather: yeah

Press/ON: I mean, I could give you some examples.

Whitefeather: Yeah.  Well, that’s a sovereign right of any tribe to determine who belongs, yeah, so …

[interview interrupted by Whitefeather’s conversation with a young woman who walked up to the interview with her baby, arranged to meet Whitefeather “back by the table”]

Press/ON: Okay, so you’re talking about separation of powers, and you’re saying that those kinds of civil rights abuses would be lessened with some kind of restructuring of the government, is what you’re saying?

Whitefeather: No, I’m not saying, I’m not saying anything about civil right abuses going on.  What I’m saying is that a different way of government will hopefully create a better balance of how we do business.

Press/ON: Okay.

Whitefeather: And, I look at it this way, is that – the way we have our government now is, gives the government everything to do about the daily lives of all our people.

Press/ON: Oh, it’s really concentrated, yeah

Whitefeather: it is, it is

Press/ON: it’s a terrible concentration of power

Whitefeather: and, what happens is that depending on who has the most influence, whether it be by size of family or other influence, that ability to stay in power rests with a certain group, it almost perpetuates itself, and that division of the haves and the have-nots creates continuous dissention

Press/ON: I absolutely agree with you about that, yeah.

Whitefeather: And, it becomes almost generational, in fact it probably has.  And so that form of government, and that way of putting our society together is not conducive to the way that the traditions that I was taught by my grandparents is that we’re a communal family, and we’re supposed to help each other, not one group taking the largesse of whatever there is out there, and just shutting everybody out, that’s not the way it works, not supposed to be the way it works.  But the way our government’s set up now, it just encourages that type of structure, and what I want to do is try to create more of a balance, where, ah, the balance of governing will hopefully, from one end to the other – like right now, I’ll give you an example.  For me, sometimes it’s difficult to advance my agenda as far as the way I see the tribe moving.  Okay, now –

Press/ON: You’ve had eight years to sort-of do this, so yeah,

Whitefeather: Well, okay, now, yeah, and it’s a perfect example of sometimes why I run into a wall, is because the council gives me the people that I have to work with under my administration.  They do the hiring.

Press/ON: Uh-huh.

Whitefeather: And so, sometimes if, if the person that’s hired has a different agenda and if it’s political, here I am trying to move the tribe, and I’ve got an individual, maybe several individuals, actually maybe working against me, or being so passive that they’re not allowing things to move, and so here I am trying to work with individuals that perhaps are not necessarily being what I want to try to do, and we sort of kind of plod along as best we can.  Now, the way I see a compromise of sorts is that, like it’s done, if I want to hire someone that’s going to be my director of this and that, I take that person’s name to the legislature and say, hey, this is the person I would like to work with

Press/ON: Uh-huh

Whitefeather: The legislature looks at the person and say, well, we don’t think that person is right, so I go grab another one, another one, until we agree, and then we have, hopefully a better working relationship that, that person that I work with would move on a better agenda, and so I would say to the legislature, well, this is what I like to do, this is the budget I like to work under, and then submit it to the legislature, they take a look at it, well, chairman, you don’t need this, you don’t need that, you need to go after this, well, I need this and I need this, and it comes to a negotiation of working within the best system that we can.

Press/ON: So, you’re essentially talking about splitting the council into an executive branch and a legislative branch?

Whitefeather: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Press/ON: And what would you do about the court system?

Whitefeather: The court system?  Um, well, I think I would like a constitutional convention committee to hear from the membership what, what that would look like.  Uh, it doesn’t necessarily have to be an elected body.  It could be of the same process of where the executive branch recommends a judicial person, brings them before the legislature for confirmation or vote it down, and eventually we agree.  And then, at that point, give that judicial branch independence, by constitution where no one can come to me and say, ‘hey chairman, can you call that judge and reverse the decision?’  I will be able to say, the constitution forbids me to do that.  So, in a sense the judicial branch will operate independently.  Ah, what needs to be examined about that is how are we going to guarantee the impartiality of the judicial branch?  That’s gonna be the big question.  Now maybe what needs to happen is some type of a traditional type of a judicial system as a blend to that, ah, I don’t know, I’d be interested to hear from the members of what their thoughts on there … because, when looking at the judicial system, there’s always a winner and a looser, there’s hardly ever anything in between where, where the party that’s victimized doesn’t get any type of restitution or maybe even get some kind of – some satisfaction of the wrong that was done to that person.  You either, you get it, or you don’t, what I’d like to see is some, some medium where the victim does get some satisfaction out of this and then, the perpetrator also has to pay some kind of penalty where, y’know, everybody’s okay, and it doesn’t become a bitter, a bitter thing, that yen.

Press/ON: Well, y’know, like for example Jawnie Hough, who was married to Donald Brun, [Jr.], there was – and it is fairly clear – she’s a non-member, she’s enrolled at Leech Lake

Whitefeather: Uh-huh.

Press/ON: And it’s fairly clear that there was a fair degree of influence exercised in the way that the [tribal] court process stripped her of her rights to her child.  And, I don’t know what you’re going to do about that, because the alternative is that members marry nobody but other members, and you’re going to have a really incestuous community if that happens.

Whitefeather: I resent that, that comment, ah

Press/ON: Well, I’m just saying that if – either you have a way of – like for example with Jawnie Hough, like for example a number of other people

Whitefeather: yeah, and

Press/ON: that have married in to the community, and aren’t members.  If – unless there is some way of somehow ensuring that they have some reasonable sorts of rights

Whitefeather: uh-huh

Press/ON: maybe not the full rights of members, but reasonable rights.  You know, I talked to an attorney that was involved in that case, and they, the attorney, essentially said, ‘if you marry a Red Laker, tough.’

Whitefeather: yeah.

Press/ON: and

Whitefeather: I’m not familiar with that case at all, so

Press/ON: um

Whitefeather: um, and then, and I do have some vague knowledge of it, and I’m not sure about the details, but if it’s a matter of who has jurisdiction over this situation and all of that is, is something that I don’t know about, I mean, in fact I said I’m trying to stay at arms length from the court and say, ‘you guys make your decision based on what you know,’ I mean, I’m not no judge

Press/ON: okay

Whitefeather: I mean, my responsibility is chairman of the tribe and doing what I know best from that perspective.

Press/ON: And I suppose what I was asking you, more, is that there’s – you know, any community, not [just] Red Lake but any community, cannot simply marry themselves generation after generation after generation, they get into trouble, and in the old way what people have told me is that you’re not supposed to marry even your seventh cousin, I mean.  This is what they told me.

Whitefeather: I don’t know.

Press/ON: um

Whitefeather: I don’t know how that works.

Press/ON: but, you know, but even twenty years ago, people were practicing a fairly – you know, you didn’t marry your second cousin unless you were, you know, you were Catholic on the other side of the lake or something

Whitefeather: right

Press/ON: and, so there are going to be non-members marrying in

Whitefeather: yeah, uh-huh

Press/ON: and there are going to be increasing issues of blood quantum

Whitefeather: yeah

Press/ON: problems

Whitefeather: yeah, I understand all that

Press/ON: and there are going to be issues of

Whitefeather: uh-huh

Press/ON: a society in which some people have absolutely no rights, and in terms of how you – you know, you’re talking about addressing some of these problems, and I’m wondering what you’re going to do about that one, if you’ve had any thoughts about it.

Whitefeather: No, I haven’t had any thoughts about that at all.

Press/ON: Okay.

Whitefeather: No, no.  Not at all.  What I want to do is try to get some stability for the tribe so that we can at least advance towards where our people will get to some comfort

Press/ON: Uh-huh

Whitefeather: Where, my dream is to have it so that no one is poor any more, that’s what I would like to see, that’s about all.

[personal conversation between Whitefeather and the young woman]

Press/ON: Do you have any last comments?  I mean, one of the things that you’re – that – I’m certainly not doing it but I’ve certainly heard it, is that a fair bit of the responsibility for what happened with Dan King, people are saying, well, it happened on Bobby’s watch, why didn’t you do more at the time?  I mean, that’s a question that’s come up.

Whitefeather: Well, here’s the situation with Dan King.  My way of governance is to delegate, ah, functions and duties as I see that particular person is able to do it.  I put him in charge of that expansion out there, with the understanding that he, as an elected official, had an obligation to do what’s right by the treasurer’s office.  And, the people voted him in, and I used that as a measure of trust and judgment, that the people voted him in.

Press/ON: Uh-huh.

Whitefeather: And so, when he took that project, I was able to monitor it to the extent of what he was telling me.  You have to have a certain amount of trust and faith in people that are elected.  What he didn’t do, was he didn’t tell us – he actually, was a practice of non-disclosure.  Even though we asked, time and again, and, I must say he probably was untruthful to us about what was happening

Press/ON: uh-huh

Whitefeather: until it was too late.  And then, we started to see some things rise to the top that caused some concern.  Ah, fortunately, we were able to look at the situation before it really got out of hand, ah, but my eventual assessment of this thing was that the group went, went beyond what was authorized by the board, for the sake of well, let’s do it while we’re at it, and then we’ll deal with it later.

Press/ON: Okay –

Whitefeather: That’s the way I looked at it, and he was not alone.  I mean, there was three other council members that were part of that committee, that I trusted to do the project.

Press/ON: And, it seems clear, too, that there’s – the tribal council controls almost everything, I mean, you know that as well as I do

Whitefeather: Well, yeah, too much!

Press/ON: and

Whitefeather: too much, it controls too much.  That’s why we gotta have more balance, we have to have more, more systems where there would be other controls, because then if you have a separation of powers, the executive branch would be accountable to the legislative branch, the legislative branch would be accountable to the executive branch, and then the judicial would be right there to interpret whether what we’re doing is within, within the parameters of the constitution.  Okay?  I gotta go.

Press/ON: Well, thank you.

Whitefeather: Okay, alright.